Has anyone seen Like Dandelion Dust or Saving Sarah Cain as 2 examples of Christian movies that are relevant and have something to say? Each dealt with different kinds of issues. What about Fireproof. There are many others. The Christians who make the movies — who are they making the movies to please? Facing the Giants, Flywheel, and the other movies made by Provident Films were intended to honor God in their content. Perhaps some forget that there is a God and He will be the one who judges the thoughts and intents of the hearts of whoever has made whatever movie. Of a truth, any of us who claim to belong to Jesus are not perfect in all that we say and do, but His word tells us that we are to be striving toward that perfection (full maturity in Him) in what we say, do, think, feel — honoring and pleasing Him in all of our ways. That some make fun of that or ridicule those who work at honoring a very Holy God in all their ways just doesn’t make any sense to those who are not striving to do that. God can and does use different movies for different purposes. Some are meant to encourage or strengthen Christians in their faith. Some to get Christians and non-Christians alike to think about the choices they have made or are considering making. Some are made specifically for Christians so that they can view movies without having to be subjected to all the types of stuff the world throws at everyone honoring God in regards to “Keep your heart pure for out of it arfe the important things of life.” Those who are making movies with a Christian theme or content, I think, are not trying to make movies that a sin-sick world will embrace. I think they are making the movies in the hope that God will use them to show that He intended life to be very different than what so many live in this fallen world.

Sadly, Mary, I have to agree. It seems as if Christian artists in literature, music, or the cinema, are too often not setting standards for excellence as they should. “…or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.” As a youth worker for a number of years, I tired of seeing Christians musicians promoted as “sounding like__/if you like such an artist, then…” When I taught junior high at a Christian school for three years, the “approved” books were frequently homegenized and vacuous. I know money is an issue, and you’re charitable to point that out. But what seems to be all too true is that writers and others want to be so “separated” and protective, somehow, that they don’t deal realistically with real, live issues of people where they live. Christians hurt, doubt, stumble, fall, and fail; that’s life. If only more writers would show life authentically, then they could truly write redemptively in a meaningful, engaging way. There are Christian authors who set standards because they’re not afraid to be genuine, to raise questions or deal with them realistically, to write endings which may not at all be “happy”–we’re not promised happiness–but endings that are satisfying. These include the late Flannery O’Connor, Walter Wangerin, Jr., and you, Mary, among others. (The school at which I taught didn’t want any Flannery O’Connor, undoubtedly because they didn’t understand the violence of grace and the redemptiveness in the midst of seeming devastation.) Please continue to speak out for the quality that’s so often lacking, and to write with that same quality and beauty, as you consistently have done. Thank you for that!

I can attest that fiction is changing, and that much of it now reflects the reality of the world around us.

What you bring up here is probably the reason my husband and his dad almost came to blows when my husband told him that we didn't like "Facing the Giants." I know, we're total heathens. (But then, so are our kids who laughed through the whole thing with us.)

I just want to say that I think there is a "self-fulfilling prophesy" element here. I watch a lot of Christian movies for my job with http://www.familychristianmovies.com and sure, some of them are cheesy, the majority of them are just films with a good message made by Christian brothers and sisters who are in their first or second film. This is an industry in infancy, but it will grow up.

I would suggest that if a Christian viewer finds Fireproof, To Save A Life or Letters to God to be "cheesy," it's because the film just wasn't their style, or they didn't expect to be entertained, so they weren't. If we go into a film expecting to be disappointed, embarrassed or whatever, I think there's a good chance we'll get that result.

Mary, I agree with you 100%. I've often taken a fair amount of hits for taking that position regarding the money side of things. Everyone pretty much agrees that "story is key," so I take that as a given. Without a good story you have nothing. But IF you have a good story but you lack the budget needed to bring it to life in a way that people are used to seeing (ie good production value), then even a great story can fall flat on its face. "You get what you pay" for is true in everything – even (or especially) movies. If you can't pay for good acting, directing, cameras, lighting, audio, crew, music, special effects etc., then even the best written story will look and feel cheesy.

The other side of it (for me anyway) is most "Christian films" fail to be "Culturally Relevant" – meaning they mainly preach to the choir and/or they are about subjects that no one really cares about. You want to know what people are interested in, look at what is the hottest thing in the box office. Look at what TV shows are talked about/blogged about/YouTubed and Facebooked about the most. Look at what's on the NYT Best Sellers list. THAT'S what people are interested in. Unfortunately, Christians seem to miss that and they go out with their own agenda and their movies come across as preachy, cheesy and irrelevant.

And I know there are some on here who will agree with this… for a movie to be believable it has to have believable dialogue – meaning, it can't be so "Christianese" that no one else can relate. And it can't be so "sanitized" that it doesn't fit the scene. For instance, if you're writing a scene where men are in combat and things are really getting bad, the soldiers aren't going to be saying, "My gosh Wally! We better get out of here. The doodoo is really hitting the fan!" I was in the Army for 8 years. People (yes, even Christians) cuss – especially in scary, intense and/or painful moments. That's real life and we can't be so "Christian" that we miss being real. Besides, I would bet that most Christians let a curse word slip out every now and then themselves. That's called hypocrisy.

I saw a movie that came out last year called, "The Book of Eli." It was a violent movie with a lot of "bad language" but you know what? It was believable, it had a good budget and A list actors… AND it gave a powerful message that a whole lot of people in "the world" went and saw. In fact, my 15 year old nephew turned to me at the end of the movie and said, "Man. This movie makes me want to read my Bible more." And he brought his Bible to his secular High School the next day! Name one "Christian movie" that has kind of effect on a TEENAGE BOY! None that I'm aware of.

So, I think our movies need to be real, believable, non-sanitized, non-Christianese, culturally relevant and have a decent budget in order to avoid the "cheese factor."

Great discussion. Anyone see "The Imposter?"

I agree with a lot of the thoughts and comments here. My husband and I were having the same conversation recently. There's several good movies out there with good, faith-ful messages, but like stated above, the acting is a bit on the cheesy side of things and production is low-budget.

I do have one to recommend, though. It's geared more towards high school students, but both my husband and I have found that "To Save a Life" is a really good movie in all considerations (though, of course, it's still our opinion). While the movie packs a lot of teenage troubles into two hours, the acting is much more solid, the production is good, and the messages they do include are key. They even tackle possible hypocrisy among church members! One of the actors from "The Butterfly Circus" (that was mentioned in a comment above) is in this film as well.

I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this film if they've seen it.

Thanks for the honest post, Mary!

Thanks Rachel. Good point about of and in.

Great discussion. I feel that Christian movies will have a dramatic change in the next 10-15 years. The Christian mainstream movies will be fewer and more far between because younger audiences are more media savvy and will demand something better.

My hope is that like the contemporary Christian music industry things will progress for the Christian movie making industry. It has taken at least 30+ years for the Christian music industry to produce high quality music, and the same is probably going to be true for the Christian movie industry. Maybe if Hollywood heard more conversations like this on social networking sites, they might realize they are missing a huge target audience.

When I saw your question on FB, I my first thought was, "It's the money, honey." I see you came to the same conclusion. Great thoughts as usual, Mary.

What a great question, Mary. One I have been talking about in the book publishing world also. "Preaching to the choir" is a valid point. I think it's a fear that we will be seen as hypocrits if we have edgy content with a spiritual trend. Being a Christian can be a double edge sword-squeaky clean fanatical religion belief vs. the truth that we are all sinful, none of us is perfect but that we try to do what is right. If we show the truth the world scoffs at us as no better, if we put on the good face they turn their noses up at us. So the question on how to stand between and bridge that gap is a tough one.

Low budgets and putting message over craft. Which doesn't work for those of us who appreciate great compelling stories and have a passion to put forth products as good as if not better than the world. Poor art like that can make people think Jesus is cheesy. He's so not

Sad but true. I think it has most greatly to do with funding as well. And I have to echo Jonathan, too. Because the second biggest issue I see is that of playing it safe. That doesn't jive with art.

The Jesus that we so often promote was not a safe person. As Garry Wills noted in What Jesus Meant, we might not want our friends or children to really wear a WWJD bracelet. He was unsafe–not just to the family (his, or anyone's), but for the religion so many of us still hold dear.

I forgot to make the recommendation I meant to make in my previous comment. Do yall know about The Doorpost Project? http://www.doorpost.com. It's an annual short film contest in which the films are supposed to explore one virtue or another. Many (though not all) of the entries are made by Christians, and many of them are really good. (A few aren't). "The Butterfly Circus," which won a year or two ago, is really remarkable.

Thanks for bringing this up, Mary. I've got more thoughts on the subject than I can put in a comment; here are a few of them. Funding is an issue, but I don't think it's the most fundamental issue. I see billboards for a Christian radio station whose slogan is "Safe for the Whole Family!" There are people in this world who seem genuinely to believe that the goal of Christian art and entertainment is to be safe for the whole family. Layer on top of that the pragmatism of the people who put up the money: whatever their theology of the arts, they know that their money is not safe if the "Christian" products they fund isn't safe for the whole family. The problem, of course (one of many problems) is that it isn't safe at all to substitute "family values" for the gospel. Christians who make art (or anything else) do well to remember how thoroughly offensive Jesus was (and is) to the prevailing culture. OK, now I've drifted away from why "Christian" movies are cheesy. But there's a connection lurking in there somewhere.

What about movies like Napoleon Dynamite or Blair Witch Project or American Graffiti? I understand that money can help add sparkle and brand names, but when you have a compelling story to tell and you understand that story so well you communicate it with passion and creativity, money isn't the bottom line. How is it that, with the greatest story to tell, Christians consistently push out lame, trite, contrived, irrelevant crap? Even in publishing, too often it seems Christian authors expect the "glory of the Lord" to carry their halfhearted, underdeveloped, neophyte drivel to the masses, then claim "warfare" when the lost world laughs. What if we sought to be filmmakers, screenwriters, authors, and artists that happen to be Christians, instead of "Christian [insert artform here]? If it's truly our gestalt, won't it come through? Forced and Blatant betrays the presenter's discomfort and lack of intimacy with their subject. These, of course, are just thoughts.

Ooooh, this is a hot-button for me, so I will try to behave.

I think we run into trouble anytime we go into a project with the intention of making "Christian" anything. We can make movies, or write books, or paint murals that glorify God without making these things mirror the sanitized "outer face" of much of the American Church. Christians need to tell the stories that will touch hearts because of their reality and depth. We find so much in the bible that isn't sanitized, after all…the point is utilizing the terrible things that happen in a story and casting them in the correct light. Sinful, depraved things happen, and they have consequences.

I think Christian films would benefit greatly by tackling the tough issues (though the profanity can be left out…the sex and violence can be implied to much greater impact than showing them to the viewer.) And we have to do these things in the most excellent way humanly possible…God calls us to our best, not mediocrity. I think a big part of that equation is indeed funding, but Christian artists must not settle for mediocrity. The "world" doesn't have all the talented people, after all.

Yes, you are so right! They are cheesy and embarrassing. Not only because of money, but too often because they try to preach–something the Arts do not do well, nor should they try. Just TELL THE STORY! As a Christian playwright, one of the most rewarding things I've heard was from a youth group who loved my play because it didn't wrap everything all up in a neat, tidy, pat-answers Christian package, yet still spoke to them powerfully. I agree, Bella was good.

I think you're right about money being an issue. I also wonder if many of these movies are made for a specific Christian audience. Many seem so bent of being non-offensive to Christians, that they miss the opportunity to witness to others. Which begs the question, why are movies being made (seemingly) to appeal to folks who are already believers? Isn't that just preaching to the choir?

Maybe (just maybe) you're just looking in the wrong place. I wonder if the films your looking for aren't on youtube (seriously) or at Sundance instead of on TBN? What do you think?

Mary, I'm surprised by how many Christians are unwilling to admit what you just did, that "Christian movies tend to be cheesy." I think we often lose our objectivity and become defensive when discussing the subject. One of my theories is that Christians are so anxious to get the Gospel out there, that we wink at mediocrity. But in the long run, mediocrity undercuts the Gospel we wish to communicate. Thanks for asking this question!

You're speaking my language.

Hopefully, the new alliance of Glass Road PR and Sam Hill Group will bring some vast improvements to the industry. Combining the power of great narrative with Emmy winning production sounds like a win-win.

Sadly, I think Christians follow poorly produced films due to the "members only" attributes instead of the spirit of excellence. I think Christians would get a better rap if they could take a step back and ask themselves, "why would anyone really want to watch this?"

Well, I'm sure money has something to do with it, but i think it goes deeper than that. It goes into the story. Overall, Christians are afraid to delve deeply into the stories that call for a huge amount of grace and redemption. We like things to be packaged up neatly so we don't look too soiled, which makes the grace part fall flat because the characters didn't need that much grace to begin with. I need grace in spades. We all do. But if i don't even like telling tha story in church, why would it come to the big screen?

I haven't given up on 'em yet. Just look at the progress that's been made in Christian fiction, thanks to new writers like you, Mary. Just saying…